Thoughts on the election: Obama elected 20 years after Reagan DEFEATED the same ideology held by Obama

obamessiah1After a slightly unrestful night of sleep, I am feeling like Obama’s bus ran over me…..I think I can stay focused enough this morning, however, to complete some of my thoughts about this monumental turn of events with this country electing Obama.

I respect the office of the Presidency, but I do not have to respect the man who will be holding that office starting in January, 2009. 

Since 2000, the hateful Left has found it necessary to vilify President Bush from the day he stepped into office, based largely on the factually incorrect notion that Bush “stole the election”.  The rhetoric has been so strong, with our side only mildly speaking what is truth, that, I believe, many Americans have begun to drink the Koolaid that Bush is an evil man. 

Here is where we start down the path of right is wrong and wrong is right.  The same people who have led the drumbeat that “Bush stole the election”, Bush is spying on you, and “Bush lied, people died”, now believe they have elected a pure and righteous man in Obama…..funny, if not terrifying, isn’t it?

I will be the last person to defend many of Bush’s policies including unnecessary spending, government bailouts, and amnesty proposals, among others.  I will be the first to defend the fact that Bush handily dealt with a great blow to our country that occurred on 9/11/01–only one other President in our history has ever managed such an attack on our country–The fact that Bush has kept us safe for the 7 1/2 years since is worthy of our praise.   Much of the work to secure America after 9/11 was not perfectly executed, but the results speak for themselves.  The efforts by this Administration on securing our country and fighting for Freedom around the world are second to none.     These efforts by the Bush Administration, despite the Left’s calls for surrender and their demeaning attacks on our country and military, have been so successful that, it seems, America has reverted back to a 9/10/01 mindset….so much so that we, at least through this election yesterday, wish to take a stab at opening the door to 1960’s radical ideology….

Something I noted to my husband this morning….it is ironic, if not downright chilling, that a short twenty years after Reagan left office we have elected a man that lives, breathes, and will fight for the very ideology that Reagan defeated around the world!   Think about that.  Further, if we can take a 180 degree turn like that in this country in a short 20 years, much damage can be done in the next four!

I have never been a very politically correct person by nature.  When I was a manager in corporate America, I did not deal well with politics in the workplace.  I just don’t have it in me to pretend that something is “OK” or that I embrace it just so “everyone gets along” and we “all have the same message”…..I think it is a hereditary thing for me.

This is applicable because I have read some right blogs last night and today who believe we should embrace and congratulate the man of Obama on his victory.  (many, I might add, don’t feel that way)  Even McCain and Bush have and will say something similar.  I disagree. While I don’t believe in being a poor sport when you find yourself on the losing side, I do believe in stating truth about how the race was won. 

Obama does not deserve respect for winning an election on his broken promise to take public financing.  His broken promise led to record cash for his campaign through foreign (illegal) donations and money laundering, of sorts, and through non traceable “gift” credit cards and the lack of measures to screen credit cards for fraudulent activity.  It is hard to say exactly how much of his record cash was acquired through illegal/fraudulent means, but I venture to guess it is a monumental amount.  So an effort to “buy” the Presidency illegally is not worthy of our praise or respect.

Obama does not deserve respect for his ties to ACORN and voter registration fraud.  With some of his record cash, Obama donated almost $1 million dollars to ACORN (that is the amount we know about…).  One could argue that cash went straight to voter fraud efforts….is this worthy of praise?

Obama does not deserve respect just because he has made history as a black man.  While I would be the first to vote for any black man who respects our country, its traditions, and its Constitution, I think the historic nature of America’s first black President is undermined by the fact that our country sold its soul to Obama’s radical and dangerous ideology in an effort to make that history.

Obama does not deserve respect for his soaring rhetoric about bringing our country together and the “politics of change” when his campaign was deeply engaged in silencing those who had the audacity to disagree with Obama.   It is not indicative of a great leader, nor a “healer”, when that person speaks harmony but behind the scenes he invokes intimidation, character assassination, and life-destroying techniques so that opponents will be silenced.  Just think Joe the Plumber, Stanley Kurtz, Sarah Palin and her family for the most recent examples.

While it is healthy for our country to disagree and for new ideas to flow, it is not healthy when illegal, immoral, and destructive tactics are used in an effort to gain votes and win an election.  It is also not healthy when our country chooses a man who sees our Constitution as a “negative” document…..this is not something we can or should embrace about Obama. 

We can disagree on tax policy, social issues, and military strategy and have a healthy debate about those topics.  But there is nothing healthy, nor worthy of adoration, about a man who chooses to force his views, his policies, and his ideology on a country through illegal means and tactics….

For those of us who voted against Obama, we must step up the fight for our country.  It is a historic election, not because Obama is black, but because we have, for the first time, elected an avowed Socialist and Marxist as our President.  If Obama follows his gut and his ideology, we are in for some rough times ahead….we have to continue the fight that our forefathers began over 230 years ago.

For all of us, take a good hard look at Obama and what (little) we know of him.  He has rarely, if ever, espoused a sincere love of this country AS IT IS AND HOW IT WAS ENVISIONED BY OUR FOUNDERS.  His rhetoric has dripped with words indicating he believes us to be a nasty country (that holds peaceful elections and dares to defend itself against its enemies), a racist country (who, by the way, just elected a black man), and an uncaring country (this country gives more to the world than any other in history)….

Obama wants to change much about our country including our Constitution and our financial system….well, I believe we are about to see that change….and I don’t think you are going to like it.

We have traditionally held many ideologies and groups to be enemies of this country and enemies of freedom around the world.  They’ve included, but are not limited to: Communists, Socialists, Marxist Dictators, Al Qaeda, Palestinians, radical Islam, Weather Underground, terrorist groups, charismatic and/or evil leaders like Hitler and Stalin.

Now think about which party, Republicans or Democrats, have historically fought these evils of the world and which have embraced them and allowed them to exist…..One question to ask yourself…..Do you think our enemies are happy wih our recent election and those who will now be in power of our Presidency and Congress?

Another blogger takes this concept one step further – our enemies are now in charge of our country:

The United States government now falls into the hands of the enemies of this country and civilization for a time or forever. And that is part of what the (coming) war is about. The country has been in the hands of people we disagreed with, but never in the hands of people whose views are as diametrically opposed to ours as anything in the Third Reich or the Kremlin. In their hands Federal power becomes enemy power.

As I mentioned before, I don’t believe in waxing all politically correct in an effort to pretend that something wrong is right.  I believe that black (and white) Americans should be proud that we have apparently come so far since the days when blacks were grossly mistreated in this country.  We have now, unfortunately, achieved history with a black man whose character, ideals, history, morality, and associations are dangerously and sadly un-American.   Americans should be ashamed of themselves today…..but those of us who love America and its traditions and Constitution are alive to fight another day….and fight for Her we will!

UPDATE 11/5/08:  Similar sentiments to mine:  On nobility at Protein Wisdom.


15 Responses

  1. WOW! I am stunned! I am absolutely amazed at how much you (and others on right end of the political spectrum) obviously utterly detest Obama! It’s just … astounding!

    Before your hatred eats you up from the inside, please allow me to try to diffuse some of your concerns and to assuage some of your alarmist rhetoric.

    To give you some background on where I stand, I am, first and foremost, an evangelical Christian. Politically, I am an independent who leans slightly to the left. Perhaps by saying that, you will just dismiss my comments outright, but I’ll take the chance that you have enough respect to at least thoughtfully consider what I am about to say.

    While I was not a fan of President Bush (even right after 9/11, when the rest of the country fell at his feet) and while I voted for Obama yesterday, I am likewise somewhat concerned about the seemingly unchecked adoration being lavished upon him. I suspect that it is just everyone being caught up in the momentous nature of the occasion, and that within a few months after the inauguration things will calm down, and we’ll get back to politics as usual. If that doesn’t happen, though, we could be at risk of having a type of personality cult, which, in difference times throughout the history of the world, has proven to be a potentially dangerous scenario.

    However, you, of course, realize that the president does not have the constitutional authority to go off as a renegade and do whatever it is he wants to with the country (or at least he’s not supposed to be able to do so, despite what Bush has been able to get away with in the past 8 years). Contrary to what you’ve insinuated, Obama will not be able to turn the US into a socialist or communist country (I’m guessing that’s what you mean by saying he “will fight for the very ideology that Reagan defeated”). After all, Bush is pro-life (as am I), but the abortion rate during his presidency hasn’t fallen any faster than during the Clinton years. And it’s not from a lack of trying … it’s because the president does not have limitless authority to affect sweeping change to long-standing practices in our country.

    Frankly, when you say you would be the first person to vote for a black candidate “who respects our country, its traditions, and its Constitution”, I have a very hard time believing you (in fact, I’m very concerned that white people will pervert this momentous occasion into a flawed sign that the period of racial inequality is over … don’t even get me started on that!) Do you really think that Obama doesn’t respect our country, its traditions, and its Constitution (which happens to be his country, traditions, and Constitution … and mine, too, for that matter … it’s not restricted to those who share your political perspective)? Do you think that Obama hates this country? No, really. Do you think he would go through all that it takes to run for president, just to be in charge of running the government of a country he can’t stand? Of course he wouldn’t! Just because he has different opinions than you about the best direction for the nation does not make him unpatriotic or an enemy of the state. The problem is not disagreement over political perspectives … it’s the fact that you (and most other people I’ve heard from the right end of the political spectrum) view any perspective different than your own to be idiotic, socialist, communist, unpatriotic, unconstitutional, or just plain wrong! (By the way, do you think Bush didn’t leave the constitution in shreds in the wake of his presidency?)

    As far as your comments that Obama does not deserve to be commended on his victory because he used “illegal, immoral, and destructive tactics” to win the election … I’m afraid that just ends up sounding like sour grapes! Bush likely used almost every tactic Obama did (and then some), and yet I bet you weren’t brow-beating him 4 and 8 years ago for doing so.

    Despite your call for hysteria, I assure you … the Obama years will not mark the downfall of our great nation. Even if you don’t agree with the direction he takes us, we, as a country, will survive, and more than likely even thrive, just as we have under ever president we’ve ever had … good and bad.

    One final bit of advice: I think it’s great to have debate on differing political perspectives, and I encourage you to continue expressing your views. However, understand that tone and context goes a long way toward influencing others. Please know that the way you’ve written this blog entry, you are not convincing anyone of anything … you’re just preaching to the choir. I wish more right-wing people would understand this!

    I’m seriously concerned about you … you need to find something to hit for a while to release some of that anger. It’s really not good for you!

  2. Dan,
    I am sure SRT is more than capable of defending her point of view, but I want to ask you a question. Why is it that when someone questions Barack Obama’s motives or his tactics in winning this election, the first thing that seems to be thrown in their face is that they are racist or intolerant of views other than their own? SRT has brought up some very valid points about Obama, points that should have been addressed by the media during the campaign, but they couldn’t be bothered by such details.

  3. Scary if true…which it most likely is.

    Geography for $500.00..

    Alex: What are three countries in North America..

    uh.. United States..Canada… and Alaska??

    Fox News Chief Political Correspondent Carl Cameron appeared on The O’Reilly Factor tonight and described in much fuller detail the truly astonishing behavior, and lack of knowledge, of Sarah Palin on the campaign trail, as well as the nasty infighting that resulted from, some would say, Palin’s “diva” behavior. (Earlier today, Palin said reports of her “diva” behavior and any tension within the campaign were “absolutely false.”)

    Cameron relates how McCain aides were terrified of Palin’s lack of knowledge of international and national issues, and even basic civics. Cameron reports that Palin was unfamiliar with the concept of “American exceptionalism,” and that not only did she not understand that Africa was a continent rather than a single country but also that during debate prep Palin was unable to name all the nations in North America.

    Palin was apparently a nightmare for her campaign staff to deal with. She refused preparation help for her interview with Katie Couric and then blamed her staff, specifically Nicole Wallace, when the interview was rightly panned as a disaster. After the Couric interview, Palin turned nasty with her staff and began to accuse them of mishandling her. Palin would view press clippings of herself in the morning and throw “tantrums” over the negative coverage. There were times when she would be so nasty and angry that her staff was reduced to tears.

    Watch the clip from The O’Reilly Factor below.

  4. Dan, (your comments are in quotes below)

    ” am absolutely amazed at how much you (and others on right end of the political spectrum) obviously utterly detest Obama! It’s just … astounding!……..Before your hatred eats you up from the inside”

    It’s funny, Dan, that I must take a lecture from someone who “leans to the left” on how to control my hate. Hate is “Bush lied, people died”, hate is literature and fantasy from the left wing on how to assasinate President Bush, ….
    All of this and more has spewed from the mouths and minds of liberals and “left leaners” in this country for the last eight years. Bush has made mistakes, as all President’s do, and I don’t expect those with different philosophies to agree with him, but the man is not evil incarnate and would be considered by most rational people to be an upstanding person with integrity. You, yourself, are accusing Bush of subverting the Constitution when there is absolutely no indications of that except in the hateful minds of the Left.
    So please spare me the lecture on your moral authority in judging a President.
    I don’t “detest” nor do I “hate” Obama….pointing out the issues that are pertinent to this man and reiterating the man’s own words is not hate.

    “Contrary to what you’ve insinuated, Obama will not be able to turn the US into a socialist or communist country”

    Obama himself said he would “spread the wealth”, his tax plans are from the book of Socialism 101—take from those who have more and give to those who don’t.
    This is a fine concept when an individual has the right to take his or her own money and give to those of their own choosing, but it is out and out Socialism when the government decides they know best what to do with its citizens’ money.
    The possiblities of Obama leaving office with America several more steps, if not fully immersed in Socialism, are pretty high….and that is just a fact based on Obama’s words and campaign promises.

    “it’s because the president does not have limitless authority to affect sweeping change to long-standing practices in our country.”

    I certainly understand that the balance of power is effective in limiting one-party rule or even dicatatorship….I also acknowledge that without a 60 Democrat seat Senate,it will be a bit tougher to pass his far-left legislation…
    However, in the case of Obama and the far Left leadership in the House and Senate, much damage can be done in the direction of Socialism, abortion, infanticide, gutting our military, the Fairness Doctrine suppressing free speech, gun control and more…..all of those issues are some that Obama and his like-minds in the Congressional leadership agree with and have, at varying time, said they will pursue.
    Obama is a Socialist. If you deny that, you haven’t been reading, listening or studying his life, his statements, his ideology, nor his campaign promises. My point with Reagan was that we have elected a guy who is the antithesis of this country’s history and Reagan’s doctrine….Reagan fought Socialist/Communist ideology….Obama embraces it.

    “Frankly, when you say you would be the first person to vote for a black candidate “who respects our country, its traditions, and its Constitution”, I have a very hard time believing you”

    Frankly, I don’t care if you believe me or not….just because you don’t want to believe me, doesn’t mean it isn’t what I believe. Obama has “said” he loves this country, but he also said he wants to “remake” it. He also has formed MANY relationships in his life with those who seek the destruction of our country from within, or at the very least, seek to transform it in their own radical image. Those are absolute facts….Ayers, Wright, Farrakhan, Khalidi, Dohrn, and more.
    Excuse me if I accept Obama’s action, associations, church doctrine, and statements over his campaign speeches.

    It is not because Obama, or you, for that matter, disagree with my politics that I don’t respect Obama. There are numerous politicians, friends, and others with whom I don’t agree politically. However, as I told another person who commented, if you agree with Obama on the concept of a Socialist America, a civlian military force, on damaging or eliminating the Second Amendment, if you agree that the Fairness Doctrine is fair and not an infringement on free speech….then yes…you are not a patriotic American.
    Patriotism is not just an emotion formed around any thought or person. A true American patriot defends our country, its Constitution and respects the intentions of its founders. None of the issues I just mentioned would fall into that category.

    “Bush likely used almost every tactic Obama did (and then some), and yet I bet you weren’t brow-beating him 4 and 8 years ago for doing so.”

    There you go projecting the weaknesses and issues of the guy you defend onto the guy YOU hate.
    You have no proof whatsoever that Bush ever implemented a corrupt campaign financing plan whatsover…Bush likely wasn’t motivated or couldn’t have implementd these tactics anyway….he took public financing when he ran for office.
    Obama has never answered to the issues that have arisen around his exceptional practices in accepting fraudulent donations, accepting odd amounts for numerous donations (which many experts agree indicate foreign donations after an exchange rate is applied), accepting untraceable gift credit cards, and donating campaign funds to a group, ACORN, with whom he has long been associated and who has a LONG history of voter fraud….Bush doesn’t come close….Obama raised donations in some sleazy ways that are similar to money laundering tactics that drug dealers and the mob use.
    Sorry, there, but winning an election with those tactics is not honorable nor deserving of our respect.

    “Please know that the way you’ve written this blog entry, you are not convincing anyone of anything”
    It’s obvious that many people who voted for Obama will not be convinced of his intentions and his character until it is revealed in future actions..even then many of you will be blinded by rhetoric….there is absolutely nothing in Obama’s past to indicate he will govern from any direction but the Far Left….and most of you have your head in the sand when it comes to his corruption, his associations, and the FACT that he is the most liberal Senator among his colleagues.

    “you need to find something to hit for a while to release some of that anger. It’s really not good for you!”
    My response is not anger, but disappointment. I wonder if you lectured the Bush haters for the last eight years on how to manage their hate and anger???
    My post listed many issues that are pertinent now and were pertinent during Obama’s campaign. Just because we elected him, does not mean that his corruption and the issues he brings with him are not worthy of mentioning….and it doesn’t make me an angry person to point them out.
    But you know, I could also lecture you about the folly of voting with emotions and on empty rhetoric of “hope” and “change”…it really isn’t good for you…just ask the families of the millions of Jews executed by another charismatic, hopey, changey, hypnotic figure in history.

  5. Evenkeel,
    The campaign is over…your guy won….

  6. Dan,

    First off, I’ll say that while I didn’t vote for Obama, and will often find myself in disagreement with the man, I certainly don’t “hate” him. I find him interesting in that he’s the first man to be elected to the Presidency who is of similar age and education (minus the law school) to myself.

    I think that part of the problem is that Obama appears to have gone to great lengths to hide parts of his past and camouflage his thinking. While he does offer a few concrete promises regarding things such as tax policy, he typically speaks in generalities.

    He voted “present” on so many occasions in the Illinois State Legislature. Beyond his resume entry as a “community organizer, we know comparatively little about him before 1996. He went to Harvard Law School and, I believe, edited the Harvard Law Review. Apparently, he also taught Constitutional Law. However, I’ve not seen ONE piece of scholarly work done by him. It’s not that I don’t believe he went to Harvard, but I suspect that he would release his writing if he thought it would help his cause.

    I believe the Press failed miserably in it’s “due diligence” role on behalf of the American people. McCain’s life from the time he was 18 (a LONG time ago) is an open book. We have a FAR better understanding of who John McCain is. Even Obama’s relatively recent past is somewhat of a mystery. However, there are snapshots of things that have been found and talked about on blogs like this one that suggest his thinking, as least as younger man, was not exactly “moderate” in philosophy.

    Why are these things relevant? For someone with his VERY limited experience in government, they provide insight on his thought process, how it has evolved, and provide clues to what he might do as a Chief Executive. Obama has been caught doing, or I should say NOT doing small things typically considered normal for an average citizen, much less a political candidate (like not honoring the flag during the national anthem). He rarely expresses any appreciation for America’s history, traditions, or accomplishments. He has said things, even in his acceptance speech, that suggest his firm belief that America is HIGHLY flawed in need of RADICAL change.

    His upbringing is not exactly what one would call “traditional”. That by itself isn’t necessarily a negative, but we are unable to fully discern what effect that had on his life because there are such gaping holes. Yes, I know he’s written two autobiographies (astounding for any person in his 40s), but you’ll forgive me if I don’t accept those as the final authority on Barack Obama.

    I realize that being elected President doesn’t confer unlimited power, but with the combined power of a friendly Congress, Obama could conceivably attempt “change” that wasn’t mentioned during the campaign. While SRT pulls no punches, she has reason to be concerned. The unknown, particularly when it’s elected President, can be unsettling.

    I’m curious…how EXACTLY did Bush “leave the Constitution in shreds”?

  7. There is something extremely disturbing in the way in which this post was tagged. The words are as follows:

    “Radical Islam, Barack HUSSEIN Obama, Weather Underground, racism, Patriotism, al Qaeda, communists, Hitler, Stalin, Palestinians, Marxist Dictators, conservatives, Socialists, terrorist groups”

    I hope that the person who tagged this post realizes that doing so with such extremist terms is in itself deeply disturbing.A few words jumps out: “Hitler”, “Stalin”, “Muslim Watch” . These stray far from what is acceptable.I would beg those who support such ideas to ask amongst themselves if their conscious supports such notions. Such assertions are in my opinion are irresponsible. Sure- I support political disagreement. But lets keep some of the outright unconnected labels out of it… shall we?

    Bottom line: This is out of control. Totally out of control. We need to clear the plate,lick wounds, say our apologies, and move on and change the country for the better. There are entire chunks of the country that are vehemently opposed with the either side, neither being correct in their assumptions. It is wrong for the country to be divided.

    Be angry. Talk about your anger. But do so constructively. If you want to change your country, then these tactics won’t work.

  8. uh, bob,
    Everyone of those names/ideologies was mentioned in the post as enemies of America.

    Are naming the enemies of America off limits now since we have The One as Prez?

    We don’t need the condescension from the Left with regards ot “untiy” when you the Left of the last eight years have been the masters of diviseness….
    We are all supposed to forget Obama’s past, his associations, America’s enemies, Obama and Democrat corruption and more now that The One is ascending the throne?

    Sorry but until Obama proves himself as something other than the person and ideas represented by those around him, his mentors, his belief system, and his staffers (Rahm Emanuel), I will continue to point out just who and what he is.

  9. My last post here because frankly, this blog is politically irresponsible and woefully misinformed. You are responsible for what you write.Keep that in mind. I leave you with the infamous words of John Mccain himself:

    ” You represent the agents of intolerance.”

    Amen. God Bless America.

  10. Bob,
    I don’t represent someone who is buying Obama’s lines if that’s what you mean.

    Sorry if I am not looking through your rose-colored glasses…there are big issues with Obama and I, for one, will not forget them…..If he doesn’t rule from the Left and do all he has indicated he will do, then call me surprised.

  11. Bob,
    One more thing…in several posts you seem exasperated that I have formed an opinion of Obama that is different than yours.

    Unlike the Left who said “Bush isn’t my President” and then proceeded to attack him for 8 years, I do acknowledge Barack Obama as my President….I am grateful for our peaceful transitions of power.

    But that doesn’t mean that I won’t hold him accountable for his plans, his worldview and the policies he wishes to implement.

    Somehow you have a problem with that and you have insinuated that we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya just because he was elected. While I am all for more civil discord in Washington, and America, the fact that there is still a case to be made against Obama’s policies doesn’t make me a “hater”.

    I have referenced many issues that were talked about in the campaign, many I have referenced on my blog, or I can lead you to links that show the information. With the exception of my own opinions (or perhaps other opinion included), the issues and associations I’ve mentioned surrounding Obama are known facts. You have yet to refute them. You simply want to call me irresponsible (nor intolerant) for bringing them up.

  12. Larry,

    I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in. If you’ll re-read my comment, though, I think you’ll find that I made no accusation that SRT was racist. As for accusing her of being “intolerant of views other than [her] own”, I think you’ll find that I encouraged her to express her differing views … but suggested that they might be more influential to those like me in the middle if expressed in a more appropriate manner and tone.

    I agree that the mainstream media is slanted to the left and that they did not seem to deal equally with both sides. However, there is a substantial conservative media contingent now that is even less subtle about where they stand. It is this group that I feel could have a lot more influence if they weren’t so alarmist and didn’t cast so many things as a conspiracy.


    I really look forward to reading your entry and being able to reply again, but I just don’t have time right now. I’ll try to get back here by tomorrow.

  13. SRT,

    First of all, I wasn’t trying to “lecture” you. Overall, I was just trying to offer my opinion on how your comments come across to those of us in the purple majority (neither blue nor red, but somewhere in between). I would offer similar advice to those on the extreme left as well. Also, I wasn’t suggesting that you control your hatred … I was suggesting that you get rid of it. Hatred is never a constructive or beneficial emotion. Anger, on the other hand, can sometimes be called for. It is imperative to understand the difference between the two, though.

    Because I called myself “left-leaning” you seem to want to attribute extreme leftist views to me. I assure you that I don’t place any lasting hope in American politics or politicians. I agree that Bush has made mistakes and I haven’t agreed with many of his stances on issues, but I don’t believe him to be “evil incarnate”. I think he loves this country, and simply thought the direction he was taking it was the right way to go. I think the same about Barack Obama (and yet I don’t expect I’ll agree with all of his stances on issues, either).

    As far as subverting the Constitution, I do believe that Bush has appropriated more power in the executive branch of the federal government than is actually given in the Constitution (perhaps my saying “[leaving] the constitution in shreds” was a bit of an exaggeration).

    If you are suggesting that levying taxes = socialism if any of that money is redistributed to those who have less, then we’ve been a socialist society from the very beginning. We have had government programs to help the less fortunate and disadvantaged members of society for the better part of a century (if not longer). I’m not going to give blanket support to such programs (in fact many, I’ll readily admit, are very flawed), but I do believe that the people these programs seek to help would not be better off with no help at all. Help does not necessarily need to come from the federal government, but our capitalist society (and I support our capitalist society) has seemed to breed generations of people who tend to hoard their resources behind a banner of “work ethic” and boot-strap hiking, only occasionally tossing scraps and left-overs to the “have-nots” of society. I would love it if people took it upon themselves to help improve the school districts in impoverished areas (either by giving financially or by mentoring or tutoring students) to give those kids a better chance of becoming productive citizens in our capitalist society. I would love it if so many health care workers would provide pro bono or reduced-cost services to those who can’t afford it that we wouldn’t have a health care crisis in our country. I would love it if enough people invested freely of their time and resources early on in the lives of disadvantaged kids that we wouldn’t have the issue of overcrowding in our prisons when they take the wrong path into adulthood. Some do, but let’s face it … it’s nowhere near enough to make a significant impact in our society. These imperfect and, often times, ineffectual government programs are trying to fill the void left by the lack of free-will compassion demonstrated by the general population. I wish there were an effective non-government answer to this … I really do … but until that happens some type of programs at some level will likely continue to be needed.

    You seem apt to lump things into categories … many of which I don’t believe fit nicely into the categories in which you place them (a trait shared by both the extreme right AND the extreme left, which, in my mind, negatively impacts the credibility of each). Socialism, capitalism, libertarianism, federalism, democracy, etc. can and do exist simultaneously to varying extents in the US (and have since the foundation of our country). The Obama White House may very well shift us in one direction or another within the mish-mash of systems which make up the US socio-economic and political landscape, but the next president that comes along will likely move us back or in a totally different direction. This has been happening for decades. When FDR was president, he enacted many “socialist” programs. If your theory is that Obama will take us down a slippery slope to a complete and total socialist society, why didn’t that happen after FDR?

    Ultimately it comes down to this: If you want the country to take a different path … that which you believe is the correct path … you have to get enough people to support that position. That’s where it comes back to tone. The extremists on both ends of the political spectrum (although for me, it is definitely more so those on the right) tend not to express there views in a tone that is appealing to those of us in the middle.

    Those on the right have tried to tag Obama with all the unsavory characteristics of those with whom he has ever associated (you mention Ayers, Wright, etc.). I’ll tell you right now, I’ve known and associated with some people who might be considered to have eccentric beliefs, too. I can only hope, however, that people judge me for who I am and what I do, and not completely by who I’ve hung out with before. This is not to say that associations have no bearing whatsoever, but it’s dangerous and irresponsible to attribute ALL the beliefs of someone else to a person just because he has spent time with him.

    You say, “If you believe [blah, blah, blah] … then yes … you are not a patriotic American.” That is a perfect example of ideological intolerance … straight from George Bush’s book of “if you’re not with us, you’re against us.” Webster’s dictionary defines patriotism as “Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one’s country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one’s country.” Therefore, if I love my country and am inspired to serve my country and thought that it would be better off under a socialist economic system (which I don’t), I could STILL be a patriot! (You may want to take a moment to pound on something so you don’t explode). If I thought the people of the US might be better off if it didn’t give its citizens the right to own assault rifles (I’m not saying I do), I could STILL be a patriot! If I thought the Fairness Doctrine was (gasp) fair (I honestly don’t know enough about it to have a position), I could STILL be a patriot!

    As for the campaign “indiscressions” you keep mentioning, I have yet to find a “referee” who I believe is unbiased enough to get down to what I believe is the truth about it. Those on the right accuse the Democratic candidate of cheating … those on the left accuse the Republican candidate of cheating. From my seat, little, if any, of it appears credible. Basically, you need to view it like this: what actually happened doesn’t matter so much as what you can credibly convince people happened. The credibility (for me) is still lacking regarding your arguments … for the most part because you sound so incredibly biased. Just as I wouldn’t believe that a referee were unbiased if he were signing the fight song of the home team. I’m not saying that referee isn’t capable of calling a fair game, but it would be easier to believe if he gave the appearance of and acted in a manner consistent with that of an impartial judge.

    The last part of your comment again exemplifies your tendency to categorize things in a completely inappropriate and alienating way. You assume that I (I guess because I chose to vote for someone different than you) got caught up in the emotional tidal wave of the Obama campaign. In truth, I, after doing my best to wade through the rhetoric and negative ads from BOTH campaigns, happened to believe that Obama would lead the country in a direction more consistent with what I hope to see. Honestly, I thought McCain would have made a very good president as well.

    I love my country enough to have a voice in the process. So, even though I have a different opinion than you about who is better suited to lead us over the next four years, I am STILL a patriot! (I guess I’m lucky that you don’t get to define me)

  14. GBS,

    You make some very compelling points using a tone that lend credibility to your arguments. I’d be interested to see what information would come out from an impartial investigation by a credible journalistic source. I’m afraid that just doesn’t seem to have existed during this election cycle (at least I was never able to find it).

    I, too, am somewhat concerned about what may be possible with a combination of a Democratic legislative majority and a Democratic president. After all, for most of the time Bush was in office, I believe he had a Republican legislative majority, and look where that’s landed us.

    As an aside, I love the way Bush responded to the Democratic congressional take-over in ’06 by saying essentially, ‘I hope that we can work together now’ after having basically ignored the Democrats (from my perspective) while the Republicans were in power during the first part of his administration. (Oops … that will likely draw some comments)

    As for my comment about Bush “[leaving] the Constitution in shreds”, I admit that I used a little bit of hyperbole. I believe you’ll find I addressed that, and some of your other questions/comments, in my reply to SRT above.

    I truly appreciate your candor and tone. I wish all political debate could be this civilized.

  15. Dan,
    Thanks for your comments.

    While I do appreciate most of your latter tone….you did start your first comment with how full of hatred I am….I am not sure what kind of response you thought you would get to that…
    I don’t hate anyone and it is an offensive accusation. My statements may be spirited, but they are nothing compared to the vile spewed from the left over the last 8 years…I don’t come close…your comparison of me to that kind of hate did not set well.

    Nonetheless…I will be happy to respond to your latest comment.
    I have never argued that there should not be some sort of welfare aid for those who really need it. In the situations of the needy that you described, I believe it is in the best interest of our country to help people in serious need.
    I also believe that the citizens of our country are some of the most giving in the world…Sure, privately, not everyone does a great job at it, but many do.

    But when I refer to Socialism, I am referring to an economic government structure (or shift to one) based on government control of parts of the economy and of the “equalization” of wealth. I understand that our country and economy is extremely complex, so I don’t mean to insinuate that different economic theories or political ideas don’t exist and interact.
    What I am clumsily trying to say is I see Obama (& his like-minded Congress) with a plan to shift us firmly on the side of Socialism.

    You mentioned FDR….I think a glaring difference I see with Obama and just about all Presidents who came before him is their vision and approach to this country. While people like Reagan, FDR, & Kennedy frequently invoked their love of country and the exceptionalism of our great country, Obama rarely, if ever, speaks of that exceptionalism…he speaks of remaking this country.

    I believe that Obama’s associations, his history, and his career are great indicators of the man and his motives….His words and plans also attest to that.
    Obama has associated himself with radical people…several of which have loudly and actively proclaimed their distaste and hatred for this country….I don’t remember any other President in my lifetime with friends and associates like that. And they weren’t just friends…he chose to work with some of these people after the hateful proclamations for the country.

    In addition, Obama continually mentions how bad this country is….I think that is dangerous rhetoric. We have problems and we have cycles, but this country is not in need of a “remake” (Obama’s word at his acceptance speech) anytime soon.
    So unless you live in a bubble or ignore these signs, words, and plans, you should be able to judge just how much “change” he wishes to invoke on this country.
    If he comes out as the biggest centrist and Capitalist-America lover the world has seen, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, but I don’t intend to sit on my hands and wait to see….(Rahm Emanuel, Henry Rivera, and many of the cast of his latest ecnomic advisers don’t give me the warm fuzzies about his intent for partisanship, unity, or governing from the Center.)

    I do disagree somewhat on the Patriotic thing….by your definition, Bill Ayers is a patriot when he descrates and stands on our flag. You might also argue he is a patriot for bombing the Capitol. After all, he thought he was doing what was best for his country.
    My point is that we have so many people, most always on the left, who try to redefine what it means to be patriotic. Well, even Biden thinks paying MORE taxes is patriotic….
    Our country is what it is…and was founded on particular principles of freedom and liberty.
    If your idea is to suppress that freedom and liberty, then you can’t very well love your country enough to follow its principles.

    Obama and the Democrats have and will try to remove our right to keep and bear arms at some level. They will also try to stifle speech with the Fairness Doctrine. Obama and his campaign tried to stifle dissent in their attacks on Joe The Plumber….these are all attacks on the principles of our country…that is not patriotic and leading the charge on those types of attacks does not make you patriot.

    On the indiscretions of Obama. We don’t have an unbiased mainstream media in this country…so you will not get a clear story on ANY Democrat fraud and corruption during an election cycle. What we do know is what other sources and a few network news agencies have reported.
    One example of Obama’s dishonesty/corruption…Obama has long ties to ACORN….his campaign gave that group almost $1 million to GOTV. This is after many of members of ACORN were convicted on fraud charges. Do you honestly think he didn’t know about that? Do you honestly believe that money didn’t go to fraudulent GOTV activity? There is story after story of those who registered under fake names and multiple times.

    My point being…you said you believe the actual corruption doesn’t matter but whether people perceive it to have happened or not….Well, when you don’t have an honorable media, you can’t much trust the perception you will get can you? Not to mention the fact, that Obama’s actions do matter….and he has a long history of radical ideas, radical friends, and radical mentors.

    As far as how you voted…frankly, your first posted comment came off as lecturing and accusing me of being a typical right wing extremist…your second post was less irritating. As much as you think I am not persuasive, you also were a bit on the condescending and lecturing side…..perhaps that is why I assumed incorrectly, it appears, that you voted based on a feeling… your thoughts on this are noted and I stand corrected.

    Thanks for commenting and reading!

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