VP Debate: Palin Connects and Biden stretches his facts


Michelle Malkin)

Sarah Palin at VP debate (pic: Michelle Malkin)

I just finished watching the VP debate.

I thought Palin was strong coming out, not as strong in the middle and ended strong.  I think Biden did just the opposite.

I think Palin won the debate….there is really not anything Biden said (except his exaggerations of Cheney and his error on the Constitution) that anyone will remember.  Palin on the other hand offered some great words that teachers will remember, all of American can relate to (“Never again”) and nicely tangle Biden in his Iraq War flip-flops.

(I will say that I think Biden was able to attack a little better on some points, but that may not have been as effective for Palin to do at this point in the campaign and in this venue.)

Obviously Palin had pressure to show her ablity and experience since the MSM and Obama campaign have unleashed attack after attack after attack on her.  I definitely believe she achieved that in spades.

I really thought Palin did great and there should be no doubts about her ability to lead and grow.  She missed some key opportunities to really come back at Biden on some of his assumptions about McCain’s votes, the war, and regulation of Wall Street.  However, since she was really thrust into a position of proving herself and staying on topic, I can understand why did not do that. 

I think Palin’s appeal to regular, everyday people resonated tonight.  She is exceptionally good at talking directly to people.  She also is deliberate in her language….few words or sentences are misspoken.

She has all of the charisma of Obama, yet connects better with her audience and average Americans.  I think Mr. Teleprompter America has met his match on speaking….and she connects without a teleprompter!

A couple of the more subtle, but profound, things she was able to do is talk about her love of the country and holding a view of American exceptionalism.  It came through in her words and sincerity.  That is definitely something that does not appear anywhere in the Obama campaign!   She also has knack for presenting a blow to the opponent and do it with a smile…very effective.

I thought Biden did well on bashing McCain and Bush, albeit some of his facts were way off.  Even though Biden obviously has 36 years of Senate debate experience and lots of facts and figures to throw out, I thought he sounded way to Washingtonian in his presentation.  Therefore he lost my attention several times.   I have to say, as a person, there is something about Biden that I like.  He is just a likable guy…….not factual and sometimes very human and definitely liberal….but a nice guy…”God love him”.

Speaking of Biden, the McCain camp has certainly wasted no time in correcting the numerous errors in facts that Biden put out there tonight.  From Michelle Malkin.com:

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

 

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46 Responses

  1. The politicians –like you can see in the debate Biden-Palin- talk about the climate change. Biden has a pessimist vision about the human action in the earth. But each baby is a gift because is able to change the world. The economist Julian Simon had a central premise: people are the ultimate resource. “Human beings,” he wrote, “are not just more mouths to feed, but are productive and inventive minds that help find creative solutions to man’s problems, thus leaving us better off over the long run.Santiago Chiva (Granada, Spain)

  2. […] Palin Connects and Biden stretches his facts Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Palin, Biden spar over taxesPalin/Biden showdownWashington Wire – WSJ.com : Biden and Palin Spar Over Wall Street, Tax HikesWashington Wire – WSJ.com : Biden: ’We Will End This War’ […]

  3. […] VP Debate: Palin Connects October 3, 2008 at 2:13 am […]

  4. Overall a very strong performance.

    I did cringe when she started talking about strategy in Afghanistan and referred a couple of times to “Gen McClellan”, the Afghanistan commander’s name being Gen McKiernan. I don’t know if she knows who “Gen McClellan” was, but I hope she isn’t demonstrating some form of prescience with that slip-up. No one is going to believe for a second that she has the background or current understanding to speak in a national forum on that topic.

    That said, most of her other answers were relevant. She deflected where she needed to, and scored a couple of good hits on Biden. In the end, she was far from the know-nothing image that the national media was trying to create. She strikes me as someone who is quick and has a great throwing arm, but doesn’t yet understand all the rules or the nuances of the game. If she survives this election with her reputation intact, her learning curve will be very steep with more exposure to these national level issues.

  5. You republicians are bias and can’t see how s^*%y your canaidates are. you makes statesments with no understanding of how anything on this planet works. The point of a debate is to debate. the stupid b%&^h could not stay within the debate topics. If you really believe palin won. then you are a retard.

    (Modified by SRT)

  6. REPUBLICSAREDUMB,

    If you’re going to call someone “stupid” or a “retard”, how about first learning some spelling, punctuation, grammar, and basic sentence structure? Additionally, being able to make a point without a stream of expletives is also helpful.

    To sum up if you didn’t understand, YOU are the one who comes across like a moron.

    Don’t feel too bad. It is typical of those with your perspective (I know…big word…look it up).

  7. The point of elections are to appoint the person best suited to the position, not a “likeable person”. This isn’t a popularity contest. We don’t need a good ole’ hometown person to run a country. What we need is a smart, compassionate and open-minded candidate. Just like we shouldn’t condem someone for being from a small town. We also should not give credit for it either.

  8. Hey GBS
    NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK. Deal with it loser.

  9. George W. Bush couldn’t name (at that time) political hot-spot countries during his campaign and we elected him President! Palin’s misnaming of General McClellan blunder pales in comparison.

  10. “The point of elections are to appoint the person best suited to the position, not a “likeable person”.”

    REPUBLICSAREDUMB,

    Maybe…but in practice, personality plays a big role in politics and the “likeable” person usually wins the prize. By the way…is this a new topic or are you just replying to a post from an imaginary friend?

    You write like an angry 6-year old…and that’s an insult to some 6-year olds. At least try to put your BS through a spell-checker.

  11. Eyes Open,

    Quite true.

  12. Republic,
    You said, “The point of elections are to appoint the person best suited to the position, not a “likeable person”. ”

    That sentence applies to Obama…The Obamabots are voting for Obama for some undefined change and cult of personality….not for his experience. His only executive experience is a Directorship with his friend, Bill Ayers, the terrorist, with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

    Palin is not going to be President, Obama is if elected.

    She is more qualified and absolutely more likable than Obama…and he is the Presidential candidate…
    Open your eyes.

  13. Palin had far more factual errors than Biden very minor mistakes. To state otherwise as this obviously biased blog does is simply promoting truthiness or outright lies.

  14. Shawn,

    The facts often take a beating in these debates, but check out Factcheck.org or even CNN. Many of Biden’s assertions were far more than just “minor mistakes” or even arguable points. He not only grossly mischaracterized and distorted many of McCain’s issue positions, he was flat out wrong about McCain’s voting record in the Senate. For someone with his experience, his command of the “facts” was often embarrassingly poor.

    This blog makes no pretense at being balanced nor any excuse for being biased. It’s not called “Sharp Right Turn” for nothing.

  15. I’m very happy about Palin’s performance last night and the Biden lies that are being exposed.

    I was reading some poll comments and found this….and it sums up exactly what I think also:

    I really think that people need to wake up and see that Obama will lead us into socialism: Big government owns and controls every aspect of every individual’s life. Media belongs to government and is used as a political propaganda tool. There is no freedom of speech or any other expression, no freedom of choice. There is no privacy, no private property – you belong to your government. There is only one person on election ballot. Justice system is a farce – government always wins. Army draft is mandatory. Brainwashed people (starting from kindergarten age) sing songs and recite poems glorifying the party leader (or furer). – Sounds familiar? – They already made some kids sing Obama songs.

    Obama wants a big government, governmental control of medicine, etc. He’s already showed some dictator’s traits, like manipulating media, trying to forbid any criticism of him, his radical wife and his radical friends. Anti-American statements of his wife may not be mentioned. She shows up on a View with a long list of subjects that the hosts were not permited to bring up. If McCain’s motto is “Country first”, Obama’s – “Barak first” and “Yes We Can” put one over half a country.

    I can’t believe political (and otherwise) stupidity of those who let Obama get this far. If this impostor gets into the White House, it’ll be the end of America and the beginning of dark socialist/fascist future for all of us.

    If this is what Democrats are wanting as “change”….no thanks—I’ll pass.

  16. the VP debate was stunning. Palin did a decent job faking about 20% of the questions and didn’t even bother answering the other 80%.

    i couldn’t help thinking of the end of the movie Billy Madison, when the Principal says to Adam Sandler, “Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

  17. […] VP Debate: Palin Connects and Biden stretches his facts I just finished watching the VP debate. I thought Palin was strong coming out, not as strong in the middle and ended […] […]

  18. Palin MUST have done well….the Lefties are out in force trying to bring her down again.

  19. From what Biden said about McCain (& Obama) earlier in the campaign, one must wonder how much he believes the stuff he’s been recently saying. A sample…

  20. I thought Biden did well. At least he didn’t tell Gwen Ifill to stand up! Is narcissism a necessary requirement for the dems in order to be on the ticket? They think they can tell us lambs anything they want and no one will notice that it’s complete “BS”. Their mistake in the past and hopefully this time will be that they believe everyone in America is as gullible as the lemmings with whom they surround themselves.

  21. Dave,
    Let’s pray that Americans are smarter than to vote in a Socialist who would love to “change” this country into something we don’t recognize.

  22. I’m BAAAAACK. Did you guys miss me? No, oh well, let’s see – VP debates… Biden scored. Palin scored too, but because the bar was set so low for her – they had to bury it – the fact that she showed up(and didn’t try to cancel because of urgent business in Alaska) gave her points. OMG, I loved when she said(since she didn’t know how to answer some of the questions asked), she “…wasn’t going to answer them the way the moderator or Mr. Biden wanted her to…” I wish she would have said what was really going through her head: “I can only remember a few of the lines our campaign strategists told me to memorize, so this is all I’ve got dontcha know {wink}.” Maybe if this was called: “The VP Stump speeches” instead of “The VP Debates” she would have seemed less dimwitted for making that comment. Speaking of winks – it seemed like she was moreso trying to flirt with the people of America than “straight talk” with them.

    Umm, talk of socialism – by my count(and the official Congressional count) 34 of your Republican senators(including your potential new party leader McCain) and 91 Republican members of the House voted yes to Socialism over the last week. And no, you don’t have to tell me Obama and a whole bunch of Dems voted the same way, because I know that. The point is – your party is accountable too. You back McCain and you preach against Socialism – and yet his involvement does not deter your vote. I would have more respect for you if you wrote in Ron Paul on Nov. 4 – heck, I’d vote for him… if he ran Independent.

    KDW – I’m glad you mentioned dictatorship – we live in one now. One man who first came to power by subverting a democratic election. One man who asked for autonomous control of the military by preaching fear – and got it. One man who asked for autonomous control of a large portion of the wealth of his country’s people by preaching fear – and pretty much got it. No, this is not the intro to a movie trailer about Adolf Hitler. This is the reality of the guy you voted in to office – twice. Too bad that’s all about to “CHANGE”(you guys really hate that word) in about 3 months.

    And after Obama has destroyed America in 4 years(or less) as you and your Hannity clones imply. I will come back to this blog(unless the OKGB – Obama’s KGB – has taken you all out) and write 1000 times: “I was wrong and should’ve believed your propaganda.” On that note, just be thankful you didn’t meet me 8 years ago.

  23. “One man who first came to power by subverting a democratic election. One man who asked for autonomous control of the military by preaching fear – and got it. One man who asked for autonomous control of a large portion of the wealth of his country’s people by preaching fear – and pretty much got it.”

    Off the meds again?

  24. GBS – Why yes, I am… and everything is so clear. They took all the drugs and put it in the Kool Aid that Hannity’s been giving you guys.

  25. FWP –
    I don’t think anyone here claims to be happy that some Republicans voted for a Socialist bail out for a problem rooted in Democrat Social Engineering.

    While McCain is not perfect, as you profess Obama to be, I certainly know that McCain is not hell-bent on tearing apart this country. Yes, he may do some things I don’t agree with, but I certainly know he understands what this country was founded on and he understands the miltiary and foreign policy.
    He also has a tax policy that actually cuts taxes ….

    On the other hand, your empty suit candidate who worked with a known terrorist to promote agitation and anti-Americanism to Chicago’s school children, lies about his tax plan.

    Obama claims a tax cut for 95% of Americans…that is impossible since only about 60% even file. In addition, he purposely promotes the plan as tax cuts when the plan actually TAKES more money from those who produce more and hands it over in the form of credits to those who don’t pay taxes or pay very little.

    That is Socialism and Obama is hell-bent on making this country in his own angry, radical, agitator, Socialist image.

    The bail out is but a precedent for Obama to declare more economic problems, promote fear in America, and implement a plan to take over more of the private business in this country…..How do I know that?

    Because Obama has been advised by, worked with, and been mentored by more Socialist , corrupt, anti-Americans than I could list here. Many of these peole and groups profess to want to bring America as she is to her heels and expel Capitalism from this society.

    I’ll name a few: George Soros, Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, David Axelrod, Father Pfleger, Jim Johnson, Frank Marshall Davis, and Louis Farrakhan to name a few.

    He also has ties to the New Party, Democratic Socialists of America, Socialist Scholars Conferences, ACORN, La Raza, and more.

    If it looks like a Socialist, if he studies Socialism, if he attends conferences ABOUT Socialism, if he hires Socialists, if he hangs out with Socialists and if he is mentored by Socialists, if his policies exude Socialism……HE IS A SOCIALIST!

  26. Why did she wink at the camera? Why did she shout-out Joe Six Pack and Hockey Moms. Why did she not answer any of the questions? Why is she trying to link Obama to Terrorism? Why won’t she and her husband comply with a courts? Why does she want to expand upon the constitutional powers of VP?

    These are the exact same qualities of Bush and Co.. Sarah Palin says Bush and Co. have had a few blunders along the way. No Bush and Co. have had no successes only failures! A bag of rocks is a bag of rocks even if the bag is Coach.

  27. gcedwards,
    Your questions lead me to believe you have soaked in Democratic talking points without the necessary research to understand even what you are asking.

    Palin is pointing out the link that Obama has to a domestic terrorist….His name is William Ayers. Ayers bombed the Capitol in the 1970’s and is unrepentant to this day. He is a domestic terrorist for whom Obama has had ties for years.

    Obama’s Illinois Senate campaign was launched in the home of Ayers and wife Dohrn, also an America-hater involvedi n the 1970’s Weather Underground organization with a goal to cause upheaval in the American government.

    Obama also was chosen by Ayers to work on an education board in Chicago. The board was established by Ayers. They worked together to bring progaganda, agitation and anti-Americanism to Chicago’s school children through grants set up at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

    On the subject of the Palin and her husband. The issue you are speaking of involved the firing of someone on Palin’s staff. The Democrat who was overseeing the investigation of this state matter (before the DNC-operatives inserted themselves) stated long ago that Sarah Palin had offered up so much information for the investigation that subpoenas were not required……I don’t call that a lack of complying. What you are hearing is the politicization of the issue by Democrats.

    I don’t think Sarah has any intentions of expanding VP powers, but Biden did not understand the Constitution when he talked about this issue.
    Article I enumerates the legislative powers which defines the role of the VP. The VP role is defined only in Article I. Biden tried to say the VP was an executive power only except when breaking tie votes in the legislative body. Article II enumerating executive powers does not mention VP.

    However, under the original code of Senate rules, the presiding officer exercised great power over the conduct of the body’s proceedings. And contrary to later practice, the presiding officer was the sole judge of proper procedure and his rulings could not be turned aside by the full Senate without his assent.
    Palin described something similiar.

    I guess you don’t remember that we have not been attacked again since 9/11. I guess you don’t recall that Bush called for the wars that decimated much of Al Qaeda’s leadership. I guess you don’t remember the market turmoil and general fear of American’s after 9/11….that, with Bush’s leadership, was overcome in spades. I guess you don’t consider some of the lowest unemployment rates in years as an achievement… Bush has not been perfect, as no President ever is, but he has had some very defined successes…..all while fighting those who want to kill us overeseas and fighting the lies and smears of the left and its leaders in this country.

    Take off the blinders,stop listening to Democrat talking points, and start reading more.

  28. Thank you for a detailed explanation. I appreciate you taking the time to disseminate what you believe to be true.

    I must say; however, you are not telling me anything I can’t hear from Karl Rove or the rest of the conservative commentators.

    “take the blinders off”, you’re scaring me with that one.

    So you’re saying I don’t read enough because I disagree with you. I think that is the problem, I read too much.

    Obama admitted working with Ayers. Does that make him a terrorists or someone who supported Ayers’ terrorist ideology from the 70’s?

    Have you ever started a grass roots endeavor? Have you ever been in a situation where the only people willing to help you are those who have a tarnished past? If so, then you understand that in order to accomplish anything, you’ve got to use what you got. That doesn’t mean that you agree with everything in someones past, or even share the same philosophies. Obama has stated that Ayers’ actions were despicable. Fact is, the whole story is taken out of context and used to fuel the fears ingrained in the minds of Americans per 9/11. It is an attempt to scare the shit out of voters. Hillary used it, it didn’t work. Now Sarah is giving it a go, it won’t work.

    Fact is, I am more terrified of Sarah Palin than Barack “Hussien” Obama.

    What is so clear to me is how you and other conservatives are so eager to overlook and justify the outright failures and ineptitude of conservative leadership. Bush hasn’t been even close to perfect his whole life. I agree that no President or person has. But the grace that you are so willing to lavish upon conservatives and their utter failures is troubling.

    Bush caused 9/11 by ignoring the intelligence.

    Bush caused the current economic (World) crisis by ignoring sound economic principles.

    The general fear and market turmoil was never overcome. The general fear is what got him re-elected in 2004.

    The U.S. economic market is a catastrophe, with global repercussions! Bush’s fiscal policy and lack executive oversight has devastated every facet of the American economy.

    I know the conservatives are out in full force trying to blame it all on the liberals and the CRA. However, one cannot overlook the fact that the republicans just recently controlled both the White House (8 years) and the Congress (5 years).

    I keep hearing the republicans say Fannie and Freddie were responsible for this current crisis. While they both only account for 18% of the troubled loans. 80% of the reason the World (not just U.S.) economy is failing is because somebody let unregulated banks and thrifts enter the subprime market unsupervised. Somebody was looking at the numbers on paper and on the quarterly GDP reports and was bragging about “strong fundamentals”. Over 50 States filed a complaint with the OCC and the OCC told them to buzz off. Do you remember Bush bragging about the soar in home ownership? Obviously you remember him bragging about a “strong” economy, because you believed him.

    Lowest unemployment rates in years? What? There were 850,000 jobs lost this year! This year alone! That is more people than there are in the State of Alaska!

    In one year there has been more jobs lost in the U.S. than there are people living in Alaska!!!!!

    There are more important things to talk about other than trying to scare people into believing that Obama is a terrorist. It won’t work. These same people all live in glass houses. If they want to get dirty, Obama ain’t no punk!

    Just taking the time like you, to share my convictions.

    -GCE

  29. GCE,

    How can you say President Bush caused the attacks on 9/11. He had only been in office for a few months and the intelligence failures that led to those attacks had already been committed and the attacks were already well into their planning phase. Bush certainly hasn’t been a perfect President, but to accuse him of this is really a stretch.

  30. GCE,
    Sorry to say many of your “convictions” on the matters of the Presidency, current and future, are based on inaccuracies.

    Bush did not “ignore” intelligence. The intelligence was faulty. And it wasn’t just Bush who believed the intelligence. Both Clintons, most of the leaders of our allied countries, and many other leaders in Congress said at various times that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. In your mind, I guess they all lied or “ignored” intelligence also.

    While I acknowledge there were mistakes made in the Iraq War, it certainly doesn’t diminish the fact we have not been attacked again, much of Al Qaeda leadership has been decimated, and we are winning the war.

    On the economic crisis. both sides of the aisle, including Bush have a spending habit that has to stop. Unfortunately, your choiice for President wishes to increase new spending by almost $1 Trillion. Guess you consider that sound economic policy in the midst of economic crisis. Oh, and by the way, he wishes to raise taxes on small business and do away with the ceiling for payroll taxes, among other things.

    While Republicans and Democrats alike had a hand in our current crisis, this crisis has been boiling the last two years….What did the Democrat-led Congress propose to fix it? Nothing until 3 weeks ago.

    You are right that subprime mortgages got out of control. It was Bush and Republicans, including McCain, at various times over the last 3-5 years that proposed these entities should be reigned in. It was Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, and others who said “No problems here…move on.”
    Not to mention that the Clinton administration threatened fines for those companies that did not offer mortgages to those who couldn’t afford them all because of race. This is the social engineering inserted into the financial system and put in place by Democrats that fueled much, but not all, of the problem.

    Granted many jobs have been lost this year. My point was only that we had some of the lowest unemployment in years in the first 7 years of the Bush administration.

    There you go mangling words….I don’t think one person, Palin or otherwise, has seriously suggested Obama is a terrorist. What we do point out is his associations, the mentoring he received and his willingness to work with those who seek the downfall of America. He also seems to align himself with those who are corrupt……Bill Ayers is but one of many on the lists of corruption, radical ideology, anti-Americanism, and Socialism.
    They include Jeremiah Wright, George Soros, Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson, Frank Marshall Davis, Saul Alinsky, Berardine Dohrn, David Axelrod, Marilyn Katz, to name a few.

    Obama has as been involved with actively the following groups: Joyce Foundation, Democratic Socialists of America, the New Party, the Gamaliel Foundation, Socialist Scholars Conference, ACORN, La Raza and more.

    Guess we are supposed to overlook all of his radical ties. By the way, it is hard to name one person or group Obama has associated with that shows an outward love of America and appreciation for its founding.

    Who a person chooses as a mentor and who they choose to align with says a lot about the person.
    The interesting part is that most of Obama’s policies fall right in line with much of the radical thinking of the people he has associated with and groups he has supported.

  31. Here we go again. I’ve never said Obama was perfect. But unless I agree with the propaganda you’re spewing – then I must overlook all of his faults and view him as flawless. EEHHHH! Sorry SRT, you missed that one…. but we’d like to thank you for playing with us here on Fun With Politics – your consolation prize is a box of Head On – Apply it directly to your forehead.

    Ooh fun, the name game! OK, let’s go down the list of dubious relationships on McCain’s side: Charles Keating(probably not the best association to have in this time of financial corruption), Vicki Iseman, Rick Davis, Charles Black, Steve Schmidt, Mark McKinnon, Karl Rove, Tucker Eskew(yup, he hired the guy that smeared him back in 2000 when he ran against Bush – desperation anyone?), George Bush and Satan to name a few. OOOPS, did I say Satan? My mistake – I thought when you wrote “Franklin Raines” that we were also including names of people they don’t have any proven relationships with. Whoops! In that case, we would have to take a few more names off your list too, huh? Of course, when your source is Sean Hannity and Conservative/Republican websites – your info isn’t always going to be accurate(present company wholeheartedly included).

    Socialism. Hmm… what can I say but: We’re ALL Socialists now, baby!

    And it looks like McCain has listened to you guys. He too has nothing good to say about himself so he’s gonna take a page out of your book – err – blog(acutally it’s not one page – it’s all the pages) and smear, smear, smear. “Good God Mr. McCain, we’ve got to get this campaign off the economy and the real issues and get it back on to Palin.” … . ; )

    But for every William Ayers comment that the McCain smear campaign pulls out of their hat – Obama’s folks have a Keating 5 commercial ready to roll – and throw in a little Troopergate and Alaskan Independence Party in there for good measure.

    It’s pretty sad, but it looks like October’s going to be another swiftboat month, but on both sides this time. Jon Stewart’s not too far off saying this is a “Clusterf@#k to the White House”.

  32. Sharprightturn,

    Ok, lets deal with the sub-prime issue first.

    You stated GW, JM, and the Republicans proposed reigning in the sub-prime lenders. You blamed the democrats. Here are the facts:

    “The big winner, if the plan is adopted, would be the FHA, a government agency that until recently seemed in danger of withering away because of restrictions on its ability to compete for business with freewheeling subprime lenders. The FHA provides mortgage insurance through a network of private lenders. Bush called on Congress to pass an FHA “modernization” bill that would enable the FHA to insure loans with lower down-payment requirements and higher loan limits.

    He also announced an FHASecure plan, which apparently does not require congressional approval, that according to the FHA “will allow families with strong credit histories who had been making timely mortgage payments before their loans reset—but are now in default—to qualify for refinancing.”

    Until now, the FHA wasn’t allowed to give refinancing loans to people in default because it was seen as too risky. And for the first time, starting Jan. 1, 2008, the FHA will charge higher rates for riskier borrowers instead of giving the same rate on all loans.” – BusinessWeek

    Bush all by his lonesome deregulated the sub-prime market, and expanded FHA to cover people who did not qualify for it. Bush thought it would be a great idea to allow people who defaulted on their mortgage loans (because they lost their jobs) rights to refinance under FHA. Bush all by himself, took defaulted high priced loans by higher income people and covered them under FHA. WTF is that!

    Here is the BIG BOMB!

    “In expressing concern about the plight of families facing disclosure, Bush is “starting to sound like a Democrat,” teased Senator Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.). Indeed, the Bush plan is bound to encounter criticism from conservatives who say that people should bear the costs of their own mistakes, and who argue that giving the FHA a bigger role in lending will unnecessarily expand the role of government in the economy.

    But while the plan has borrower-friendly elements, it’s far from harsh toward business and wealthy individuals. For example, part of the plan is to allow people who borrowed from private-sector lenders to switch into lower-cost FHA-insured loans. So the lenders would get fully paid off, and the risk of default would be transferred to the FHA—and thus to taxpayers.” – BusinessWeek

    Instant Replay

    “Part of the plan is to allow people who borrowed from private-sector lenders (NOT CRA , NOT Fannie or Freddie) to switch into lower-cost FHA-insured loans.” – BusinessWeek

    Bush, JM, and the Republicans are the sole cause of the greatest fiscal and policy failures in the history of the U.S.A..

    I am just warming up.

    Don’t get me started and then close the thread or erase my post like so many other so called “conservative” bloggers of WordPress.

    -GCE

  33. FWP,

    I think I need to remind you that you still haven’t delivered a coherent / logical reason to vote for Obama. You lost all but the smallest shred of credibility when you reneged on our bargain. Most everything I see from you is a bunch of BS…and long-winded BS at that. I’m still waiting for more that the random “lucid thought”. Like most all Obama supporters, I don’t think you’re capable of it.

  34. “Bush, JM, and the Republicans are the sole cause of the greatest fiscal and policy failures in the history of the U.S.A..”

    gcedwards,

    This is so stupid. How about warming up with an intellectually honest argument based on some facts and a knowledge of history that pre-dates 2001? Like most other Dem trolls that show up here, I don’t think you’re capable of it.

  35. gcedwards,
    If you’ve read my blog, I have noted before that Bush did that very thing with no/low down payment mortgages. No surprise there.

    That is why I have said that this is not solely the Democrats doing, but they do play a part.

    Obviously, you don’t want to hear any facts about your own party, but one fact in this whole mix makes the Republicans the evil perpatrators.

    You forget that Bush also made at least 17 statements over the course of several years that Fannie and Freddie were in need of more oversight and he warned of impending crisis if they weren’t. Democrats and Republicans in the leadership positions didn’t heed that call.

    In addiiton, if you want to be taken seriously, stop accusing me, and conservatives in general, of something that has not happened….you might note I have kept every one of the deranged “Fun with Poltics” comments on here.

  36. FWP –

    Nice try….a list of names. How about a little substance, there Einstein.

    Keating? McCain was cleared of any wrongdoing and the Democrat lawyer Bennett on the case even acknowledged that McCain was likely kept on the case so that the defendants weren’t all Democrats… the usual political tactics of Dems who get caught.

    Oh no someone on that list also smeared McCain? My gosh I think I’ll have to change my vote the The One…that is scandalous.

    Now why don’t you go back to the drawing board…..why don’t you find some real names like those of people that OBAMA associates with who actually love and proclaim America as a force for good…..who love their country and espouse Capitalism.

    Obama’s list of associates are basically a grand America-hating bunch…..some are self-proclaimed agitators and Socialists. AND Obama has actively worked with them all to make that type of “change” they seek. Some are felons, thugs, plotters of murder, Palestinian sympathizers and anti-Semitic.

    Funny how through all of your discussions, you can’t ever name a reason why you’d vote for a guy with such associations, other than the standard, “I’m for Hope and Change.”

    You may want to see your country turned on its ear by a bunch of leftist radicals, but I don’t.

  37. SRT,

    I am not oblivious to the fact that the democrats supported Bush on too many issues. That has been the biggest error of the democrats. Hell, there backs were against the wall. They had the entire republican machine against them calling them unpatriotic. Anyone who opposed Bush and Cheney’s policies were labeled traitors. They (democrats) were the minority in Congress for 5 of the last 8 years.

    You act like the current catastrophes just crept up on the country. Fact is it is a direct result of the policies of the earlier years of this administration. When the republicans lost power in the house, they went on record to identify the problems they created in vague speech. No specifics. No plan. No solution. Just more tax cuts, more printing at the Fed, and more political evasion and maneuvering.

    You stated, “Bush also made at least 17 statements over the course of several years that Fannie and Freddie were in need of more oversight and he warned of impending crisis if they weren’t.” -SRT

    What Bush said and what Bush did was T totally two separate things. I believe the term would be antipodal.

    Here is what Bush did regarding Fannie and Freddie:

    “Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration, a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks. The Federal Reserve, too, did nothing but encourage the wild west of lending in recent years. It wasn’t until the middle of 2007 that the Fed decided it was time to crack down on abusive practices in the subprime lending market. Oops.” – BusinessWeek

    The Community Reinvestment Act is the Federal Agency in which regulates Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    Did you get that? Bush and Co. have weakened CRA enforcement since he took office! Actions speak volumes, Grasshopper!

    Instant Replay

    “Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks.” – BusinessWeek

    The fact is Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac worked marvelously under the Clinton Administration. The CRA was a tight fortress with a plethora of oversight and regulations built into it.

    Bush deregulated Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac so that you and I can argue about who was really to blame.

    Bush changed the policy of the FHA to try and cover his ass. What can you do when people are losing their jobs and consequently their homes. What do you do when you don’t have a clue. Oh, I know, change the rules.

    You mentioned that Bush has kept unemployment low. WRONG. Clinton did a much better job. Under Clinton, for 8 years, 1.76 million jobs per year were created. Under Bush, for the past 7 years, only 369,000 jobs per year were created. (Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics.)

    This is the trickle down effect all right! Piss on US!!!

    Now, I don’t think Bush/McCain are bad people, it’s just obvious that they just don’t get it!

    John McCain is a air head! That is why they are avoiding the facts and issues and want to smear and distort the truth. Thing is, nobody is scared. Ain’t nobody runnin’. Ain’t nobody trippin’.

    You’re right. Palin did not call Obama a terrorist. The seeds for that have already been planted by Hillary. Is this the best they can do?

    These next 30 days will seem like a 1000 years.

    Palin doesn’t have anything else to offer? All she can do is wink trying to seduce Joe Six-pack into voting for JM so she take over.

    Don’t tell me she is on the facts. Her husband was a member of an anti-American hate group. That’s right a member! Just wait…

    I really don’t have the time to educate you and all your friends in this thread.

    It’s been fun though…

    -GCE

  38. GCE –

    LMAO….you think you were educating US?

    The main thing I learned from your rants is that you have a combination of Bush Derangement Syndrome, Palin Derangement Syndrom, and McCain Derangement Syndrome.
    Better get some medicine for that.

  39. I am gonna LMAO on 11/4!

    You better start the impeachment blogs asap!

  40. Please SRT. Regarding the Keating 5… like I’ve said before – OJ Simpson was found “innocent” too. Fine – let’s go on that premise. You criticize Obama’s “judgement” for hanging with domestic terrorists who carried out their activities back when he was 8 years old. John McCain ADMITTED to “bad judgment” in associating with Charles Keating – at the actual time he commited his crimes.

    And as for Tucker Eskew… well – you know Bridget McCain – the girl that John and Cindy McCain adopted from Bangladesh? Well, they did an entire video presentation at the RNC to “highlight” that wonderful act; and most likely to quell the rumor that Mr. Eskew started back in 2000 when he worked for the Bush campaign machine. John’s new “friend” Tucker started a rumor that Bridget was actually a child McCain fathered illegitimately with a black woman. Wow – I’ve got a feeling that any ol’ Joe-six-pack or hockey dad would’ve kicked the living s#!t out of Mr. Eskew. What did McCain do? Hire him. No significance to you, right? Well – it shows he’s that desperate to win and would entrust his campaign to someone he knows is a liar.

    As for reasons to vote for Obama – well, I’ve stated them a few times on this blog – however I still haven’t seen any reasons from you why we should vote for McCain. Heck, McCain doesn’t even have any reasons to vote for McCain – that’s why they’ve adopted your philosophy of smearing.

    As for Obama’s associations with, “…felons, thugs, plotters of murder, Palestinian sympathizers and anti-Semities…,” you’re absolutely right. However, your problem is John McCain has associated with the same folks – they’re part of a new radical socialist group you may have heard of – Congress.

  41. “As for reasons to vote for Obama – well, I’ve stated them a few times on this blog – however I still haven’t seen any reasons from you why we should vote for McCain.”

    FWP,

    I guess you forgot our conversation a couple of weeks back. Your ONLY reasons is that you FEEL or HOPE that Obama will CHANGE things for the better. Contrary to what you promised, you countered with NOTHING substantial after I laid out McCain’s resume’. I don’t blame you for not having much to offer…there’s very little there to work with.

    You’re actually comparing McCain to OJ? REALLY? By the way, OJ was found “not guilty”…there’s a difference between that and a factual finding of “innocence”.

  42. GBS – My reasons for voting for Obama are my own. I don’t need to justify them to anyone, although I’ve attempted to do so on this blog anyway. I don’t know exactly what it is that you and SRT are looking for me to list. Like I said before – if you want to look up his record – go ahead and do it yourself, it’s free info. Sorry – I don’t have time to copy and paste his resume here.

    But you all have blown off my statement about your justification for voting Bush into office twice. What kind of list did you compile back then? Show me that list and I’ll show you how much worse off we are now than 8 years ago(don’t worry, I know your going to ignore this statement again). But I’m sure you didn’t compile a list or examine his resume. The only reason you voted for him was because he’s Republican and so are you.

    Here is the problem with being affiliated with a political party. Your choice is already decided. It completely defeats the purpose of democracy when your “vote” is already spoken for because of party affiliation. I was a big Reagan fan – then I went for George H.W. Bush twice(lost the second time as you all know). Then I picked Clinton over Dole. Finally, I refused to vote for Bush II in the last two elections. My vote is not spoken for. I listened to both sides and made my choice on how I “felt” after hearing them out. Political parties have developed into fanbases and elections have become more like sporting events. You always root for your team whether you’re Republican or Democrat. Issues don’t seem to matter. Look at the current state of the campaigns. Instead of telling us how they’re going to make our lives better – they’re going to tell us how bad the other guy is. Exactly like you’re doing.

    You’re conservative… okay what does that mean – you are pro-life and pro 2nd amendment AMONG OTHER THINGS. We’ve got 7 out of the 9 current justices of the Supreme Court appointed by Republican presidents. However Roe v. Wade is still here and my gun choices keep getting slimmer and slimmer. As a conservative – you’re not going to get your agenda met even if McCain goes the next 8 years and Palin goes the following 8. So put aside the conservative agenda and then, what is there to vote for? Right now – the two biggest issues are the economy and the war. Do you really want to continue the failed Republican plan for the economy and do you want to stay in Iraq after the human and financial toll it has taken on America? Palin was wrong when she said it’d be a white flag of surrender to leave. We’re done. Our boys and girls did their job with honor – now it’s time to come home. You think the levels of violence have come down because of our presence? You bet. But don’t be lulled into some false sense of security. Those terrorists we’re trying to get rid of have just moved to other areas to regroup and replenish their ranks – namely Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    And what about that McCain resume you laid out? It boils down to exactly the buzzwords McCain’s campaign has been trying to push – POW and maverick. And the maverick ain’t as maverick as he was before the 2000 elections. He has become more inline with his party and conservative ideology, and in-effect been defanged by his desire to become his party’s presidential nominee.

    This is the John McCain I would’ve voted for back in 2000:

    or even here:

    But he learned not to bite the hand that feeds him votes:

    So there it is. I’m going to vote for Obama because I agree with his stance on the economy and the war. I FEEL he’s the best chance to get us out of the mess the last 8 years has brought. I don’t care about Ayers and Wright because those viewpoints are not his own. Even amongst my own friends – they say things that I don’t always agree with. That’s the beauty of free will, and in this country in particular – free speech. But I’m not going to hold Obama to the viewpoints of people he’s associated with just as I’m sure you don’t want to be associated with every single opinion or viewpoint your friends have. And if you tried to refute that, you’d either be lying or you’re in a cult.

    I’ll admit though – I don’t know for sure what Obama’s presidency will bring just as I’m sure you didn’t expect to be where we are now after you voted Bush into office. And don’t pretend you know exactly what the course of the next 4 years will be if McCain gets elected because that’d be BS. But I’ll vote on my feelings any day over lists and resumes. You can say one has more experience over the other all you want – in the end – none of them – Obama, McCain, Palin or Biden – has experience being President of the United States. I’ve looked at the issues, ignored the mud-slinging, and made my choice.

  43. “I’ve looked at the issues, ignored the mud-slinging, and made my choice.”

    FWP,

    You may have ignored the mud-slinging, but you’ve slung plenty of BS on these pages. If you told us you were a committed Socialist, and that you’ve concluded that Obama will take this nation in that direction, that would be more intellectually honest than what you’ve written.

    I know your type…you like to complain but you have no reasoned or constructive answers for anything. Many of your complaints are hyperbole, and most of the the rest are just wrong.

    You’re the type that filibusters at a meeting but everyone wonders later what the heck you were trying to say.

    You may be competent in a narrowly focused area, but you will sit around day after day gazing at your navel, and wonder why the world has passed you by.

    You might know what you FEEL on a day-to-day basis, but you don’t know what or how to think.

    Your answer to most every serious problem or setback is to run into a mental hole and hide.

    Like the other intellectual and emotional children that scream and swoon when the “messiah” enters a room, you somehow FEEL that Obama will kiss the boo-boo and make it all better.

    You are correct about one thing…you don’t know what an Obama Presidency will bring. Obama is by any measure an unknown quantity. McCain, while certainly not perfect, is a comparative open book. McCain’s belief in, intentions for, and personal commitment to America are unquestionable. Obama’s motivation and intentions are very much masked by his image makers and the media. Philosophically, he is well to the Left of the overall electorate, and he’s working very hard to hide that. You may well be disappointed by an Obama Presidency, but for reasons that you or I cannot now fathom.

  44. Ouch GBS. A bit touchy? I did like the gazing at the navel thing though… that made me LOL. Slung BS? Nah, just facts bud. Well, except for some moments of levity I tried to bring to the blog, I don’t think I’ve misstated anything about McCain or Palin.

    It amazes me how much you guys think people who vote for Obama must worship him. Wrong again. I see him as human and as dimwitted at times as McCain and Palin(well it’s hard to match Palin in the dimwit field). I’ve admitted many times that Obama is a flawed man, but that’s what makes him a man and not a messiah.

    It’s been funny watching the McCain campaign change their message every few weeks in a desperate grasp for votes. First, when McCain was the clear frontrunner during the Republican primaries – it was “Leadership”. Then, when Palin came on board – the new slogan was “Country First”. Then they went on a tour promoting themselves as the “mavericks”. Now, here we are just weeks before the election and it’s become an all out mudfest. It’s gotten so ridiculous, that I kind of miss the Bridge to Nowhere and the plane on ebay.

    When you don’t have a clear consistent message for voters, it’s hard to reel in the independents(like myself) or the “on-the-fence” Dems. Obama has had one slogan and one message the entire time. McCain was right yesterday when he said we needed a steady hand at the tiller. So far, his campaign has been anything but steady so I can’t imagine his presidency being any better.

    Feel free to keep the silly attacks coming though. They’re pretty funny. It’s like a kid in grade school when he gets into an arguement, “You’re a poo-poo head!” Well, at least you’re inline with the new McPalin campaign strategy.

  45. FWP-
    Your a pretty pompous ass….Did you get beat up on the playground a lot as as kid? (For those of you who don’t like A-word…please give me special dispensation…this guy has it coming.)

    I’ve been fair in keeping your comments intact on this blog, no matter how lacking in facts, so please take my assessment of you in the context it is intended, lest I be accused of being an angry McCain supporter.

    …..no anger, just pretty tired of your pompous “I said it, therefore it is the truth and you are all a bunch of lying, Bush-voting, ignorant, sniveling, wee-bit Republicans” attitude.

    Most other respected blogs would have stuck you back under the bridge where you belong by now, troll.

    Plenty of facts have been presented to your lying eyes…you simply don’t want to see them lest they obstruct your clear view of Obama’s radical world. Or is it just that you are the radical and attended Obama’s School of Agitation….you seem to enjoy it!

    If I or anyone else voted for Bush or even agree with his policies or not and if we choose to vote for McCain to keep our American heritage intact…well guilty then aren’t we?

    I don’t know how many times you’ve said, “I feel this…”, “I feel that….” about Obama….why don’t you try thinking sometime? You might learn something.

    If you choose to FEEL that Obama will solve your problems, fine….but stop your ranting about the facts thrown your way. If you want to feel good about yourself he’s your candidate.

    If you want to feel good about your country in four years…don’t vote for Obama.

    As far as Obama’s message….when you have the MSM in the tank for you, you don’t have to tell a truthful message, just a message…..no questions will be asked.

    And the information about Obama now being pressed by the McCain campaign should have eliminated Obama from this process during the primaries. Again, a willing MSM didn’t do its job.

    It is laughable to me for Obama to be lying about his own plans AND lying about McCain’s….then when McCain and others bring up real facts about Obama…the liberals and playground wimps like yourself yell….NASTY….DESPERATE…..

    When, and if, you obtain a grown-up thought process, you are welcome back.

  46. FWP,

    I certainly would not trouble myself to get angry with you. More accurately, you amuse me. I recognize “lame” when I see it.

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